1 Confirmation with Jeff and Dave – a forward-looking view with DJ – TheFinancer.org ! Bitcoin over 23k!
In this episode, we celebrate Bitcoin over 23k! it is a bubble or do you think it’s going to keep going? what’s next for us in 2021? What are the state and the future of medical care globally? Mass adoption of crypto & healthcare revolution and more! Join us!
Jeff: Good day, everybody. This is one confirmation with Jeff and Dave. And I’m Jeff.
Dave: And I’m Dave.
Jeff: And I’m glad to have you. It’s been an amazing ride. I mean, Bitcoin is over $23,000. I was just saying to somebody the other day, “hey, Bitcoin is $23,000 it’s all grown up. So, what do you think about Bitcoin at $23,000 Dave?
Dave: Well, I’m, I’m really super happy, super happy with this, because two months back, I have did some investment. And my investment is gone double more than double. So, I am so much excited. And I’m just thinking that what I could not have made a more investment so I could have made more money. But I think whenever you wake, it’s a morning. So, I’m excited and I’m thinking that it’s going to be up huge pretty soon. So yes, it’s amazing.
Jeff: Yes, that’s the thing. I mean, back in May, when we were first talking, I think Bitcoin was around $7,000. And I think the industry that was after a low of $3,000 everybody was like, “oh, Bitcoin is dead.” So, what do you think, do you think it is a bubble or do you think it’s going to keep going?
Dave: Well, it seems like it’s keep going. Because from last two months, when I’m watching it. It’s like keep going up and up and up. And that can’t be bubble, because if it could be a bubble, then maybe after one month, boom goes down. But it’s keep going. And if you see the complete market train, Ethereum is also really going up. Except few but these two top guys are like they are doing really great. So, I don’t think this is about—
Jeff: Yes.
I think there’s so many people getting into this. I mean, just looking at the headline Guggenheim shows Bitcoin–Guggenheim I mean, they’re huge. They have museums and Collectibles all over the world, and they think Bitcoin should be worth $400,000. And then you got Coinbase, that’s about to IPO through of all people, Goldman Sachs. And then you got all the DeFi action that’s still going very strong, chorionic, they’re talking about becoming the first FDI DC insured bank to launch a Bitcoin rewards program. So like, you could have a bank account with Bitcoin on it, and it’ll be insured. And then you got yield some kind of new startup, yield finance that, who knows what that’s all about. But they’re claiming that they’re going to make it easier to invest into DeFi. And that’s on top of all the Ethereum 2.0 stuff that’s been going on. And then of course, greyscale, they just bought $215 million worth of Ethereum at a 28% premium. So in other words, they just bought $365,000 Ethereum. So, what do you think about all this buying activity that everybody’s doing?
Dave: Well, they see the future. Because they know that this is going to be huge. This is the future, and that’s why people are moving ahead in this.
Jeff: Yes, it’s really, really interesting. I think all the different activity going on and maybe to reveal some of the mysteries about this. I mean, about why it seems like everybody in their grandmother is getting into this faith. Now we have with us, DJ of the financer. He runs a blog over there that has probably about 10,000 people following it that I can count. He’s very active every day talking about what’s been going on. So DJ, say hi.
DJ: Hi, guys.
I’m glad to be here. Much appreciated.
Jeff: Well, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you got going on?
DJ: Yes, sure, of course.
So, as you mentioned, I’m the founder of the financer. I try not to use words like that. I’m just the humble creator, let’s say, and I even go a step further. I used to say often that I’m just a proxy basically. So maybe you see me a bit active. But at the end of the day, what I try is to, as I say, sometime to basically implement the brilliant ideas from our members. So, what I mean by this is that every single day by all these discussions that we’re having with our community, which is definitely not as big as you just mentioned, but still and there are ideas that come up and so on. And then I tried to be the person there that just maybe sometimes speak some ideas and just run with it. So for instance, someone would say, “oh, we should maybe implement that merger on the site, or we should talk about this project, and so on.” And in that’s basically what I try to do is to be that person that takes that information, and then just runs with it. So yes, that’s pretty much my role.
Jeff: That’s fascinating.
Well, there are so–I mean, what 5,000 different cryptocurrency projects that are out there, right. I lost track, I can’t even keep up anymore. And somebody just the other day was telling me about yet another project that I can’t even wrap my head around. And, of course, there’s projects like slove.care that I’ve talked about on my show for many, many times, I’ve had the CEO, from that project on my show several times talking about the state of medical care globally. And that project is going strong, but it seems like nobody’s ever heard of him. So how do you separate the wheat from the chaff as I say?
DJ: That’s just an amazing question, to be honest, I just love that question, really mean that. We recently implemented, we basically use the API from CoinGecko, in order to list most of the coins or all the coins that they have there. And we listed all of those on to the financer. So you can go on the site, you click on coins, and basically you see the exact same list that you would see on CoinGecko, what retries to, I wouldn’t say to do it better, but really to focus on user experience based on many sites. For instance, you open coin marketcap, you would see lots of other advertisements everywhere, you would see so much ads, you don’t even see the content. So, we try to stay very focused. But my point here is that when we did this is, I calculated the number of coins that were listed, they were precisely 6001 coins. So, I think that’s pretty insane. The question, indeed, is, how do you navigate all of this. And that’s precisely why I created the site. It’s basically I see especially lots of youngsters that start in crypto. And you know, they run from one project to another. And, for instance, there’s a member who mentioned a project called, “Bonk,” which is I think about NFTs, if I’m not mistaken, or something around memes, or cards, I don’t even remember to be honest. But they would just say, this project is amazing, I run with it, and so on, while I’m not always sure if it makes sense if there is a strong rationale behind it. So, I think what we do, and what we try to do collectively as a community is to do our own due diligence. And we have some members. And I guess I’m one of those as well, because I’m also a member at the end of the day, and we basically talk about all those different projects. And it sometimes it seems very clear that the project makes no sense at all. For instance, we mentioned sometimes with the project techs, which to me is the ultimate Ponzi scheme, the ultimate pyramid. But sometimes we talk about projects, such as recently we discovered and we cover the RealT project, which I think is extremely interesting. So, to me that’s why I’m so excited as well about crypto is that at the end of the day, it’s really exciting to go through all this, let’s say these new projects that just start, let’s say. And then I stopped there, I could talk for hours. But basically what’s really interesting is that, I think to make an analogy, it’s as if we are back in the early 2000s. And many companies and many startups were just starting with them on the internet business. And unfortunately, this created the tech bubble. So, my view is that most of these coins are totally useless. Maybe it’s a blunted word, but I truly mean that. But I think that’s very, very exciting. Because you can see we are really at the beginning of something brand new and something very exciting.
Jeff: Yes, I would agree with you on a lot of this.
I think there’s a lot that the industry can do and if you listen to my show, or even had read my book and articles from the past, even when I was writing for Forbes, I had accurately predicted even the rise of DAO all the different talents that we see today, DeFi, DAPs you know. Saying that’s going to be the next generation. And even if you read about even way back, somebody reminded me that I predicted PayPal will ultimately accept Bitcoin and here we are today. They accept Bitcoin and they’re going to be giving it to merchants. So, what do you see as if somebody’s new to the industry. So, let me just ask Dave, because he’s really new to this industry. What do you think would be next for you and cryptocurrency, what would cause you to go out and do more with crypto?
Dave: I’m sorry, I lost.
Jeff: So there’s all these different cryptocurrencies out there, for example, coin and yield and Bitcoin and Ethereum. And Ethereum you can do something with that. So, if you had all the money in the world so to speak. What would you do in the realm of cryptocurrency? That would be interesting, would you develop a website around it or what would you do?
Dave: Well, in that case when as an IT person when I will be going for any development, I will be looking for the payments. So, we can make people’s life easy, we can make a payment from any corner of the world to anyone out like other side of the world. So that’s the first thing. And the second thing that out be believing in the like, security on time transaction. That’s it.
Jeff: Yes.
I think DJ, that’s the interesting part is that we have this new technology, and people are still trying to figure out you know more about what we can do with it. So, what do you think, DJ, what’s next for us in 2021?
DJ: What’s next for me. I think we are talking for quite a while about mass adoption of crypto. And what we have just seen in the last couple of months, as you were mentioning, I think you are right, that there is a huge interest from especially from Wall Street. Whether that’s good or bad, I think that’s very positive at first, what I think that, let’s say, I think I would not be surprised if at the end of the day, it’s actually big tech and Wall Street that take most of it. Because we know how things work. And we know that at the end of the day, it usually ends up with a kind of concentration for instance, we are covering a lot Celsius network and the CEO of the of that platform and Alex Machine Ski was sharing some slides which were extremely interesting, where you can see the concentration of banks over time. And I read not remember how much they went, from point A to point B, but you can see how much this is really drastic. And you can see, I think this everywhere, even in nature, but at the end of the day, if we talk about finance, I think this seems very clear. So, coming back to my point around those 6001 tokens that we list are coins that we list on our site. At the end of the day, I think most of those will not even be there in a couple of years. So, what I see next is clearly bigger adoption. What I see is big tech joining. And then I think all those small projects that were created by just a couple of developers somewhere, I think most of those we will not talk about those anymore. And for instance, I think what Facebook tried to do with Libra. I think for me, that was clear example of big teach joining. Apparently, I’ve heard recently that they have not given up but they will try let’s say, to reset and launch again their coin called I think DM, if I’m not mistaken.
Jeff: Yes.
DJ: But that’s exactly what I’m seeing is that I’m seeing exactly again, like in the in the year 2000s. Let’s say the adoption of the internet, at first, it started with some guys some random dudes creating some sites somewhere. And it ends up with big companies like Apple, Google and so on just ruling the world. So, I’m not exactly sure if this is a very positive, let’s say a few around the future because I think at the end of the day, again, it’s going to come to those crypto companies will become bigger and bigger and bigger. That’s my own view. But still at the end of the day, it’s still very exciting because it could be that just one guy a one developer right now will create a the next year big tech actually focusing on crypto. So, I’m still very hopeful about it. So my view is definitely that next–I remember actually last year in December, we were saying the same, next year is going to be extremely, extremely great for crypto and so on. And then we saw what happened with the price of bitcoin. I remember I published an article, which I think the title was, “Bitcoin 2019” was almost exactly like, “Bitcoin 2018”. But I think still, what we have seen in the next month, is showing that things are happening right now. I would not be surprised if coming back again, you were talking about the price of Bitcoin. I would not be surprised if then we see definitely some new all–time highs. I think right now we are in uncharted territory. And again, that’s for me is very exciting.
Jeff: Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly on all those topics. And that’s really what’s so fascinating about this industry. And you’re right, exactly like what happened in the early days of the internet. And somebody reminded me the other day that Airbnb, really started out with a very simple website, it was extraordinarily simple. And they were just looking for places for college students to crash. And literally all you would get at the mattress in the living room somewhere and away you go, because this is San Francisco. So do you think there might be similar things in crypto, like somebody will create an Airbnb and the next thing, you know we’re all going to be using it?
DJ: I’m just 100% sure.
And that’s why on a personal level, I’m basically trying to for quite a while trying to, with our community to come up with projects. And this is something we have not done yet. Because for now, let’s see, we’re talking a lot we are in analyzing projects, we are creating a couple of modules on our sites, which are great, and so on. But we never created a project. And I would be very, very interested to actually try to come up with a project. So, there is actually one that we are trying to do with a developer and I, which is called, “this actually, I never talked about this anyone else except in our own community,” it’s called, “Million Dollar Crypto”, where basically they used to be aside. I don’t know if you if you remember that one but again decades ago or into again, in the 2000s, where there was a student who basically created a website and sold some pixels.
Jeff: Yes.
DJ: You remember that?
Jeff: One pixel for like, a million dollars or whatever, yes.
DJ: Exactly.
And he sold basically a million pixels, I think, one $1 each. So we thought about that, we thought about that. And for me, that’s a project that I found so interesting and we were talking and I was like, we should really do this, but with crypto. And then we could go much further. Because, recently you can see there is also a big interest around the NFT (Non Fungible Tokens). And I was thinking or we were thinking that perhaps actually, we would go to the next step. So, it wouldn’t be just having some pixels and then you can promote your company, your site and whatever. But actually the next step, you could perhaps once you buy those pixels, you could then resell those pixel and in perhaps make a profit out of it.
Jeff: I thought of all kinds of things. And I’ve actually predicted quite a few of them. I even predicted Celsius, I talked to people about it. Back in Denver at the meetups, and some of those people found in salt. They didn’t do it the right way of salt. But of course, to see you have salt, talk to the CEO of Celsius, and that’s why we had such an amazing startup today. That’s why I really like Celsius actually. But meanwhile, one thing I thought about two things I’ve thought about, I hope to have an article up in the next month or so about just what happens to cryptocurrency. This is Planet Earth, everything that lives dies, ultimately, right. But, right now, if the passwords in your brain and not the only places in your brain, what happens to the crypto once you passed away? Like, say, for example, Satoshi and those guys, let’s say they were trying mentally ill or whatever. Now that all those cryptos are locked up. Do you think there could be a project where somehow if somebody passes away that that information can be pass on to the heirs in some ways, like a crypto wheel?
DJ: It’s actually very interesting, because I promise you, last week, I was actually discussing this with our community. And we were just thinking, for instance, we could add a section on our site, because this would be extremely easy to do, you just add some information. And for instance, if you don’t log on the site, let’s say once every three months or something like this, then it would send information to some of your contacts. But of course, then you start. I think, exactly the same as you, I think that not only that would be a great idea, but I think that that’s a mandatory idea. Someone needs to come up with a solution like that. Because again, this is definitely a problem, people sometimes laugh at me, because I’m always thinking very long term. And for instance, I’m always saying, I never sell. And sometimes they were telling me, well, if you’re never sell, then what happens at the end. And that’s exactly what you’re saying, what happens at the end. So I think definitely, I know someone will come up with a project like that. I have the same view as you. But I don’t think, at least as of now, I have not seen yet such project really done properly, let’s say.
Jeff: Having another one I was thinking about I was just over at Kidzania here in Dallas, and they were creating a time capsule where you could write notes in it, and put other objects in it and lock it up for 50 years. I mean, that’d be another great project, but crypto time cast, so that would unlock after certain amount of time. Which reminds me, do you remember who I don’t know, maybe it was Benjamin Franklin, that he locked up some amount of money at a fixed rate of interest for a long period of time. And then he gave it to somebody just to show the power of compound interest?
DJ: I actually remember that. There used to be a video game, which I played but years, years ago, and which was called Maniac Mansion Two. You remember that?
Jeff: Yes. I love that game. Yes.
DJ: Oh, my God, that’s one of my best games ever. And it was really great because you remember you were playing in, I think three different timelines at the same time.
Jeff: Yes.
DJ: I remember, as a kid, it was so exciting. Because you would for instance, in the past, put an object somewhere, and then someone in the future would then get it. To me this is truly some topic that I really, really care about. I think what’s great about what’s happening right now with crypto is that it’s as if we are really witnessing evolution. And of course, it’s called crypto but it could be called, at the time the internet, I think at the end of the day, it’s exactly the same thing. And I’m very passionate about it. One of my best movies ever is 2001 A Space Odyssey by Kubrick. There is this famous sequence, when you see that animal playing with a bone and suddenly discovering the tool. And then he throws that bone in into the air. And that bone then morphs into a—
Jeff: It’s in Airplane. The spaceship.
DJ: Exactly. And, and you can see the evolution from suddenly discovering the tool to ultimately having basically AI becoming more intelligent than even humans. And of course, I know that crypto is not, let’s say that big but still, you can see that this is definitely a powerful technology.
Jeff: And that’s the thing, I think we have a long way to go with this technology. I was talking with the guy over gitcoin.co. And that was a project. When I first saw that site, they had some $20,000 $30,000 worth of projects or something for that month. They were just getting going. And they were saying anybody can go on there, and get a job, pick any job they want to do. And by the way, it’s not just programming, it’s any job promotion, editing, writing, there’s all kinds of different projects on that site. And today, if I were to go back there, I think I haven’t seen the page yet. But I mean, there’s millions of dollars of projects on that site now. I mean, it’s insane and it’s like that evolutionary growth. So do you think we’ll continue to see the same across the entire industry, where 10 becomes a million and million become a trillion and that sort of thing?
DJ: I’m 100% sure. I’m 100% sure.
The only thing is that as I was mentioning in the beginning, I think that at the end of the day, it’s as a ways and that’s why I’m that’s not very helpful big companies that will take that will take most of it and it’s like with every also new technology, there is always some downside to it. And that’s also I think let’s say a focus that we don’t talk about it a lot from a blockchain perspective. When we discuss in our own community, it’s always there’s lots of excitement about, for instance, always new, all–time highs about whatever coins, it’s always about this new project and so on. But I don’t think we talk a lot about also the negative aspects. I’m not sure I have all the answers, but I think that’s also an interesting topic. I don’t know, what’s your view on that.
Jeff: Yes, I would agree.
That’s the point. I’m kind of making Is there a lot of people they’re just like, when moon, when moon/ Well, there’s a lot more going on than that, you know, there’s value creation happening.
DJ: Yes, that’s why, of course I’m a strong, I’m a strong believer in both Bitcoin and Ethereum. And, of course, the day a Bitcoin will be at $100,000, I’m going to be super excited, I strongly believe and there is no joke here. I know, for a fact that one day one bitcoin will be worth $1 million. I know it in my bones, and you will see it will happen, we would play that clip, again, that I know of. But at the end of the day, I would say it’s definitely a bit irrelevant. Because whenever the price of bitcoin, it doesn’t really move us forward. So I would tend to agree with you, I think, when moon when moon is definitely fun, and I can see myself also with that behavior. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t move us in crypto, I think and that’s why you were mentioning Celsius network. That’s the project that we have followed the most, with our community on it, and on our platform. And those guys are really trying to change the world. Because I think, to me, why not I was covering that company, I started to learn much more about the banking and industry. And I never knew that they screwed up so much their customers to be honest. So, and so those guys, for instance, they are really changing the world. I think at the end of the day, the sell token is one of the token that had most appreciation. This year, I wouldn’t say the one perhaps I don’t even know. But we’re talking about 1000s of persons. But at the end of the day, I think this comes because of the project and not the other way around. So that’s why I would go much more with a serious project that is focusing on doing something to move the world forward. And then hopefully, it will work financially speaking, which is the case here. Then something that would be I was mentioning hex which really the goal is just making money. But at the end of the day, we all know how it ends. And it ends with you know that that token being priced at zero, almost. So, I much prefer the approach of trying really to provide something and I guess it’s the same in any industry. I’m sure they for instance, in your business, it’s the same you’re trying to add value for your customers.
Jeff: All good, man.
So yes, that’s the thing in any industry it’s really important to create value. And that’s why I’ve been so passionate about solv.care, out of all the different, so called healthcare tokens. This guy, Pradeep Goyal is somebody that is deeply knowledgeable about how that whole industry works.
DJ: Can you explain a bit what he’s actually doing? Because I see that that’s a topic that is also very interesting for me, because in our community, we talk a lot, not only about blockchain, but as I was mentioning a bit around evolution itself. And we talk a lot, for instance, about automotive industry, for instance, those Tesla cars driving on their own. And of course, there is also this big topic, which is healthcare. I think we are still in the Stone Age of health for now. So yes, I would be very interested to be honest.
Jeff: Yes, so that’s the deal.
So solv.care Pradeep Goyal, he for years had worked on a variety of different occupation throughout the health insurance industry, we’re talking high level. So everything, benefit administration to pharmaceutical administration, all of that, government agency liaison, and so on. So he’s been really through like every different thing that you can think about here. This is my kid, if you can give me a moment.
Andy, come on, let’s go this way.
Andy: I don’t want to go.
Jeff: I have two kids Andy and Edward. And they’re priceless too you know.
Dave: Of course, in the future crypto holders. I’m sure.
Jeff: Oh, actually, I got them both crypto. Hey, think about it. I mean, rather than putting $1,000 in whatever, you put $1,000 in this and it’s going to go somewhere, right.
Dave: Of course, I actually created a crypto account on Celsius for my own girlfriend, because I was like, I think this will make definitely sense. Maybe not right now, but just a couple of years. And I think it’s been just one month, and she already mooned as you would say before. So that’s definitely the good idea.
Jeff: Yes, that’s a thing. I mean, I got to think about their retirement plan. And it certainly isn’t going to be so security, we can talk about that one next.
But back to solid care. So his son ended up getting some–he didn’t say, and I’m not going to add some kind of really bad illness. So, he saw firsthand just the sheer craziness. And in the same way, I’ve gone through a similar experience, and that’s why we bonded. It’s just a crazy world, this whole HMO thing, trying to get the right doctor, waiting for approvals, all of that. Basically, the health insurance companies, and even the pharmaceutical company, they really get between you and proper care. And to go even further, many of these doctors, they’re really governed by lawyers, right. Their lawyers are their customer, whereas if you’re in the IT industry the customer drives the entire lifecycle of what a developer does right for us. So, solv.care was founded by Pradeep Goyal out to change this whole equation. And so how that’s going to play out is he created the token, he created an application, he signed up, actually I think something like 10 different healthcare networks around the world, that directly–so if you have to have, you can go see the doctor, the doctor can see the medical records with permission from the patient, from any other doctor that the patient has seen immediately, right there in the app, there’s no waiting for medical records. If you get a new doctor, the old doctor can no longer see those records, right. When’s the last time you told your doctor, I don’t want you to see my records, right. Then they get paid immediately, like right there on the spot. There’s no waiting all throughout. And not only that, they just started a new DAO around the whole idea of how do you, for example, have fun that next generation pharmaceutical. So now there’s the DeFi, if you will, around that that’s been shut up. Same thing, there can be a DeFi around Health Network, right. So literally people can on their own on their own health care network, and using Solv Care see any doctor in the world.
DJ: That’s super interesting. I would definitely check that one out. So, you said it’s solv.care, right?
Jeff: Solv.care, S-O-L-V, yes.
DJ: I would definitely check that one out. I mean, that that’s exactly what you’re saying. I have seen far too many projects where they just want to make money. And I think, maybe it has worked, I think maybe it will work for some time, but at the end of the day, I don’t think we’ll see so many ICOs with lots of members. Because they will see that it’s a bit useless at the end of the day. I think, for me, it’s about maybe it’s a bit of a cliche, but how to make the world a better place, or how to again, provide value to customers. And I think what you just mentioned with solv.care, I haven’t checked it. So definitely, I will see. But I think that makes perfect sense.
And, it comes back two years ago, there was a guy and I don’t remember his name, he had written a couple of books on innovation. And he was doing a call where I had the chance to participate. And there was a quote, which I remember by heart, and it was really profound to me is that he was mentioning, “if you want to innovate, solve problems.” And there is this thing where many people think that innovation is about creating this new shiny object that doesn’t exist and no one on the entire planet even thought about. And actually, at the end of the day, I think it’s mostly about solving problems and exactly what you were mentioning with them with healthcare. It’s about we are seeing right now that there’s this huge problem. Can we do something about it. And I think that’s just an excellent example that you shared.
Jeff: Yes.
So Dave, you’re back. Welcome back.
What do you think about all of this?
Dave: It’s true that the future is in crypto and definitely we all things to make this world great place. I have one question for today’s DJ. Well, the crypto, we talk about the crypto and they have like money is going up and up. That’s really great.
But let’s suppose if I’m walking on the street in New York, and someone knows that I have a crypto in my wallet. He come with a gun, and he say, “hey, give me all your crypto, just transfer quick”. Just like snatching something for you. How that can be recovered? Because let’s suppose he take my money. That something that is a rules or the government, they have something so that can be recovered, or we can find that, this was the cheat, this was the person who took all my money.
DJ: I think that’s an excellent question.
I think when it started, they did not even ask themselves those questions. And I think it’s only right now that that people are really our companies are really trying to focus on this, I’m sorry to always come back to Celsius. But actually a couple of months ago, Celsius network has implemented something that they call the Hodel Mode, which I actually activated on my own wallet. And basically what it does is that even if I want right now to give you some coins, if I want to give you one ETH right now, I don’t even have the ability to do so I would have first to find a special code, I would have to enter it into the app, I would then have to wait 24 hours, I believe, and then I would have to add your address as a whitelist. And then perhaps wait even one more day. So, I think it’s an excellent question. That’s why I really appreciate those defy solutions. But at the end of the day, I have seen so many reports and so on. I wouldn’t say I feel more confident. But I also feel very confident with some companies that act in your best interest. And that focus also on those kinds of things, because of course, you’re right. Otherwise you save your entire life and with just stealing your key and then that’s it. So. I think it’s an excellent question.
Dave: Thank you.
I think that’s great that companies are thinking and you have something. So, that’s great.
The other thing is, I see that, these days when it’s transaction when a lot of people is walking and a lot of big transaction is happening. So, how that is there something government bodies they are tracking that, “okay, these money is not getting used by some terrorist organization or some bad people’s.” So, is there something his comment is tracking or maybe in the coming future, they are thinking of to track that because just like other transaction, there is a banks and they track it, “okay, whom you’re sending money, what support for the number of things”. So, is there something is coming or is already there in these cryptocurrencies?
Jeff: I’d like to answer that I actually.
We just had on the last show, a guy that developed a project around identity. And if you think about how Ethereum works, you can attach identity verification to token transactions. The idea being let’s say, you had a healthcare token, right. And you want to make sure that the doctor you’re seeing is really a real doctor, because how many times we’ve seen doctors in person A stop, right. So that’s the thing. So there are a lot of solutions out there now and I think when Ethereum 2.0 to hits, we’ll be able to join those project together and create some really amazing things.
Dave: Okay, that’s great then.
So that make me feel confident that, “Yes, now wherever I’m going and the world is moving ahead, that’s we are on right direction, there’s no issue is going to come or anything come” definitely people are thinking to fought it out.
Jeff: So what do you think DJ about all of this?
DJ: I’m not quite sure.
I think, when government starts to join, it always becomes very, very painful. And I’m actually, I’m very annoying without community and I tried to work on myself because I’m actually very, very interested about politics, and we covered extensively or maybe even too much presidential election and I really saw that our members were either they were not interested at all, and they really much prefer talking about crypto or they had strong opinions that one side or the other. We were not really able to have, Metro discussion. So at the end of the day, I think it becomes very, very difficult when government joins. What I think it’s, it’s maybe off topic, but what I think is that, you know, with the adoption of crypto and especially what we’re seeing just in the last weeks alone, with the interest from Wall Street, I think unfortunately, like I was mentioning with big tech, I would not be surprised if then governments try to jump in, and being more and more aggressive and of course, wanting a bite of the cake. And there is actually we have a gallery section on our site and there is a mostly with memes. And there is one meme, which shows basically, I think, a sign saying crypto has been banned by governments and basically, it’s like, a big street and there is no fence or anything at all, you can just run through it. Because of course, it seems very difficult for a government to really put up crypto on it’s own. So, my view is that I don’t really “and again, maybe I’m off topic”. But that’s a topic I really—
Jeff: I think it’s fascinating if I can just chime in and present to you the idea, and I kind of hinted at it most recently. It all goes back to decentralized autonomous organizations and the power of that. Alright. So, and I know it’s really dystopian, and there was even a black mirror episode about this. But where the author of that show presented it in a negative light, I really can find no fault with the idea behind this very thing. See government is there supposedly to protect us. The idea originally about government is that we were transferred the power of defense, if you will, and observing and tracking bad actors and things like that. We transfer that power from ourselves to some trusted third party with checks and balances and so forth, that would then watch the national borders against bad actors. We do know, and I’m sure we can point out there are some very bad actors out there, I’m looking at you Kim Jong–un of North Korea.
[laugh]
Dave: For example, Jefferson.
Jeff: I’m just really wondering about the guy. I mean, he came back from the dead supposedly, or if he the same guy. So anyway, so there’s a lot of really fascinating. Now, here’s the thing with distributed autonomous organizations, right. You can within the cryptocurrency, track the collective actions of an individual. Alright, you can. For example, on certain, if you will secure networks, these networks have to be more secure, because they deal with, for example, production of milk. You want to make sure that network is kept secure from bad actors. So, you would want trusted vendors to interact with that network. So, there you go, you can track the actions.
DJ: Of course, and that’s why I was mentioning also the negative aspects from crypto. It’s really funny, because at the end of the day we talk a lot about, you know, banks being the enemy, and so on. And of course I guess I speak from both of you much preferring to move on to crypto, but then at the end of the day, I don’t know about you, but I’m quite sure that you never spend as much fees as since you joined crypto. Because, with gas fees and I know, of course, we are in a difficult situation right now before the real launch of ETH 2.0. But I think I’m quite sure we never spend as much fees as before. And in terms of privacy, of course, if someone suddenly knows, for instance, someone sends you some crypto and then knows your wallet ID, or your let’s say he knows the transaction ID and so on. Then, you lose some privacy, that’s for sure. So, at the end of the day, yes, he I think there are lots of positives, but it still asks, there are still lots of downsides. And again, I think collectively we don’t have all those answers right now. But as always you create nuclear, nuclear energy, and then there’s the nuclear bomb. So I think indeed those are very important aspects, I think.
Jeff: So, I think these are the questions that the collective the whole community are going to be faced with over the upcoming years and not imagine. But there’s going to be a whole lot of if you think the Bitcoin versus Bitcoin Cash argument was intense, I think just wait till you see that next type of thing.
DJ: I fully agree with you.
And coming back to, you know you were mentioning bad actors. Maybe I’m a bit exaggerating, but maybe governments will become the bad actor for crypto, because at the end of the day, we have all seen, and it’s not being political to see that most of the governments are simply not able to manage their finances properly. Please tell me about one country that doesn’t have debt. So at the end of the day, and when you see how much for instance, the US Fed printed interest this year alone, I believe, I’m not 100% sure, but that we printed something like 20% of all the dollars that were ever even that were printed in the entire past in just a couple of months. So, if we continue on that on that road, I would not be surprised if then they see this new thing, which is called crypto and then there are lots of people that make insane gains. And there is almost no one, they don’t take any fees or anything at all. I started investing at first with stocks and I’m seeing it or I used to see it each time, I would receive some dividends, I would see the check that would go directly to the government. So, I would not be surprised if they try to do the same. And it’s going to be so difficult, of course, because there are so many countries there. There’s the European Union and so on so. So yes, I think definitely, it’s going to be difficult. And perhaps we’re going to be looking back at 2020 and saying, “Oh my god, remember that time it was so easy to work with crypto”, maybe things aren’t going to be very difficult in the future. I don’t know. But that’s why also, and maybe another topic.
I think it’s very important that the companies that launch in crypto, they do focus a lot on the legal aspect. And for instance, I know that I think it’s crypto.com I remember for instance, they started to launch some Fiat, and then suddenly they had to cover to go back and just cancel those because, they didn’t do the due diligence. So, I think also this is a key element. And what a boring element.
Jeff: Yes, that’s the thing.
I think another one with Telegram, right. They tried to launch exactly, they got banned, hammered by all the all the government entities. Now, that said, I happen to think if they had just gone the way of making Telegram decentralized, then nobody can stop them. And therein lies the plot. I mean, what’s to stop, you know, bad actors like Russia, they’ve already done some things with crypto, and I think they’re probably going to experiment with more bad action to advance their national interest. So how do we protect ourselves is the question.
DJ: Exactly. And that comes back to that beam I was mentioning, there is no fence for DeFi. You cannot block DeFi, as long as you won’t be able to block computers running. So that’s why also, I don’t see–I like owning many assets when I invest in at the same time, I definitely want to follow both solutions, whether it’s Central, let’s say CeFi versus DeFi, my view is that I actually love both. And I want to own both, and I’m very interested in both. So it’s going to be very, very interesting. I think, in the next years or even in the next month to see how things evolve.
Jeff: Yes, exactly.
Because here’s the deal. I think we all know that security’s going to run out of money in just like 15 years or something. And then why so there’s some massive, massive problems that are up and coming. And I just remain hopeful that, cryptocurrency will be at least a huge part of the solution. And I really hope that governments most at least the majority of governments get the idea that, the economic operating system that we have right now, is about like DOS, and here we have like Windows 10, way better, or if you prefer Mac OS X, I get it. So, it’s still way better than DOS, Windows 640K memory limitation that we keep throwing money at.
DJ: Yes, of course.
I’m stealing hopeful, because you can see that there is so much competition between countries. And usually, it’s actually not very positive. But maybe on this one. It would be because I don’t see governments at the end of the day, for instance I don’t remember, I think it was China who said that they were banning cryptocurrencies, whatever that means. And at the end of the day you can, and it comes back again, and maybe I’m too philosophical, but it comes back to evolution, I think you can try to find evolution, but at the end of the day, it’s a bit of a lost cause, because it’s just impossible to always come back at you. And for instance, when talking about, I was interested years ago about genetics, and there are, of course, lots of moral issues with genetics. But at the end of the day, I think, again you cannot fight progress. And I really see blocked the blockchain as a progress. And of course, maybe some countries will ban it, and so on, or we’ll try, maybe they will try to add some taxes here and there or maybe tax transactions. I don’t know. But, I think there will definitely be some, let’s say, areas that will be more positive with crypto, I think, for instance, in Sug Valley, whatever it’s called where they are really favorable with, or it’s in favor of crypto. So at least I guess that’s a hopeful one, I don’t know what you think.
Jeff: Yes.
Everything’s going on all at once. And I think it’s going to be that way for quite a while. But in the meantime, I think, you know, if readers were to follow you will–the financer.org. website, on a regular basis, they can definitely follow everything that’s going on, and at least be able to make informed decisions, which I think is the key. A lot of people have made a lot of uninformed decisions when they first joined the crypto industry. And then, like I read just the other day, somebody who’s complaining that instead of going to half a million, he threw it all into all and ended up with $25, 00 for a guy. So, there’s been a lot of those going on. And then I read just one journalist, he bought 10 Bitcoin way back, and went to a sushi restaurant that accepted Bitcoin. And it was like, $1,000 bill, so she gave him 10, Bitcoin, the sushi restaurant owner kept the bitcoins, you can imagine what it’s worth today.
DJ: Okay, I see.
I have seen so many stories like this. And unfortunately, even in our own community, I have seen the same, I cannot tell you how many members we had that mentioned. I started to mine some bitcoins here and there, and then I lost the hard disk drive, or I sold those, or I didn’t believe it, and whatnot. And I have seen this, not only with Bitcoin, but also with some other coins, where I was mentioning, I started investing, 20 years ago in stocks. And for me, I was doing my due diligence, I was very interested about Warren Buffett and in his approach of long term investment. So, I would do my due diligence, sometimes very badly, sometimes not so badly, and I would then push the buy button, and I wouldn’t look at it for years. That’s how I was investing, and I was expecting that many were actually doing the same. Whereas when I joined crypto, let’s say fully, which was in the summer of last year only, I was just amazed by all these knows about these insane, this acid and nice all the time about sell, buy, sell, buy, dig profits, sell and then buy lower, and so on. I was really, really amazed. And I think all the statistics in the world will always tell you that you will be always far better by just holding for life instead of trying to do crazy things.
But, I was very, very surprised when I started to invest in crypto, and seeing as you just said, eloquently all these all these back and forth. And that’s why also we created the financer, which at first we didn’t so much focus on crypto, but it’s really to try to provide this, let’s say hopefully doing this due diligence on behalf of our users and also within our communities. So, let’s say maybe collectively trying to do this due diligence and at the end of the day trying to share the outcome. And it’s very hard because of course on a personal level, sometimes you feel very strongly about some projects and still you don’t want to wait sell those to your community. But, I think it’s very, very important that and I just discovered your, your platform, and I will definitely check it much more. And I really appreciate talking with you because, you’re putting the word maturity in a world of crypto where you don’t see it so much. I think that’s very important. And again, I think currently, we only talk about Coin Desk, and I think Coin Telegraph or whatever it’s called. I think, also, we’re going to see on, let’s see in terms of platforms, in terms of news, I think we’re going to see also lots of new platforms that will emerge. And I really hope that that you’re going to be part of those.
So yes, I’m going to definitely look back at your site, because at least just from the discussion that we had today, I’m very interested about your work. And I think it’s very important.
Jeff: Yes. And that’s why a BTC Manager I really enjoy, like I say, talking to just so many different people like yourself, just to find out more about what’s going on what’s happening. Because as we’ve seen here today, there is so much more than, “when moon.”
[laugh]
DJ: Of course.
Again, it’s very exciting, because at the end of the day, we are really changing the world on so many different areas. And what I also like a lot like we were talking about this video game, and those kind of Time Capsules is that. When you go back and you read, as you were mentioning before, when you read some of the articles that you published years ago, it’s really just exciting and very interesting to see what, why they evolved, what happened and so on. I remember, for instance, I published an article about XRP. I think that was the very first article we published, which was totally wrong, totally, totally wrong. Because we have seen that there was not really a price appreciation of XRP, like many thought at the time. So yes, it’s just very interesting to do this kind of analysis. And then the future is always right. And then most of the time, you’re wrong, but when you’re right, you’re very right. So yes, I appreciate that.
Jeff: Yes, for sure.
Well, Dave, any final thoughts?
Dave: I’m very amazed with all the fascinating things that DJ has mentioned, and I’m sure this crypto is going to be the future. So yes, exciting.
Jeff: Yes. Awesome.
Well, final thoughts for me is I really think that the future is wide open for anybody that you don’t want to give a go at it. Don’t be afraid, take a chance if you will, on something new and exciting in crypto. There’s so much free education out there. There’s actually a vibrant and growing community. It’s certainly better than doom and gloom that you hear all the time from regular TV. So any final thoughts, DJ?
DJ: Final Thought is, thank you very much.
I will definitely come back to btcmanager.com. I’m really looking forward if we can continue talking together, Jeff and Dave, I would be very interested. And a big thank you for having invited me. I really appreciate that. That was actually the very first time that someone interviewed us on the financer. We have really huge plans for the site. So yes, I’m sure we’d come back and say that was the very first one. So much appreciated.
Jeff: Sure thing. Sure thing.
It’s glad to have you and maybe in about six months or so be great to circle back and see where things are at that time. So, again, this has been One Confirmation with Jeff and Dave. I’m Jeff.
Dave: And I’m Dave.
Thank you everyone.
Jeff: Thank you.
Glad to have you.
DJ: Thank you so much.
Bye, bye, guys.
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